L3 Leadership Podcast Transcriptions: Shawn Lovejoy, Founder & CEO Of Courage To Lead

By January 30, 2018Transcripts

Please enjoy this transcript of this episode with Shawn Lovejoy, Founder & CEO Of Courage To Lead. It was transcribed and therefore might contain a few typos.

Shawn Lovejoy: 00:00 And I think it’s one of the major attack strategies of the evil one is to just try to get us to pack up and go home and be quiet. go away, settle for something less, stop dreaming, stop believing in yourself, and in what God’s placed upon your heart, so just don’t doubt, have faith, not just in God, but in God through you that you can see this thing through. Just don’t quit on it.

Doug Smith: 00:23 This is the L3 Leadership podcast, episode number 179.

Doug Smith: 00:29 What’s up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the L3 Leadership podcast. My name is Doug Smith and I’m the founder of L3 Leadership. In this episode, you’re going to get to your see are part

Doug Smith: 00:37 one of my interview with Shawn Lovejoy. Shawn is the founder and CEO of Couragetolead.com a company, the coaches, leaders through what keeps them up at night. I love that tagline and the interviews you’re going to get to hear us talk about the importance of coaching and mentoring for leaders. You’ll hear us talk about what Shawn believes is the one vital attribute of all leaders that God uses most. We talked about succession. Shawn actually handed off a church that he founded and we talk about the process that he used for that. We talked about his advice to young leaders and so much more. You’re going to love, love, love this interview and I would also encourage you, you can listen to part two of our interview, which is our lightning round interview in episode number 180. I’d highly encourage you to listen to both. They’re both full of wisdom for ways to connect with Shawn and to learn more about what he’s doing and links to everything that we discussed.

Doug Smith: 01:21 You can check out the show notes L3 Lleadership.org/179 but before we dive into the interview, just a few announcements. First, I just want to encourage all of you to become members of L3 Leadership. Our vision here is very, very simple. We want to connect and develop leaders to help them maximize their potential and we believe that every leader needs a community of leaders around them, that own courage, them, challenge them and hold them accountable and that’s exactly what we provide here at L3 Leadership. When you become a member, you’ll have the ability to join one of our mastermind groups or launch your own. You’ll have access to our community of over 100 leaders. And you’ll have access to the tools and resources you need to take your life and leadership to the next level. To learn more about membership, go to L3eadership.org/membership. I also want to thank our sponsor, Alex Tulandin, who is a full-time realtor with Keller Williams Realty.

Doug Smith: 02:09 If you’re looking to buy or sell a house in the Pittsburgh market, Alex is your guy. He’s a member and a supporter of lL3 Leadership and he loved the opportunity to connect with you. You can find out more about Alex and connect with him at pittsburghpropertyshowcase.com and last. I want to thank our other sponsor, Henne Jewelers. They’re a jeweler, owned by my friend and mentor, John Henne, my wife Laura. And I got her engagement and wedding rings through Henne Jewelers. And we just think they’re an incredible company. Not only do they have great jewelry, but they also invest in people. John gave Laura and I a book to help us prepare for our marriage and he’s been investing in me as a father, a husband and a leader now for years. So if you’re in need of a good jeweler, checkout Hennejewelers.com. And with that being said, let’s dive right into my interview with Shawn Lovejoy, enjoy it. And I’ll be back at the end with a few announcements. Thank you so much, Shawn, for taking the time to do this interview. And why don’t we just start off with you just telling us a little bit about and what you do.

Shawn Lovejoy: 03:01 Yeah. So it’s great to be on the call, first of all, today and I appreciate what you do. And, I think we go way back with John Maxwell. I go all the way back to cassette tapes, okay, you probably don’t remember cassette tapes, but I do. So I listened John Maxwell when he did cassette tapes. Do you ever listen to John on a cassette tape?

Doug Smith: 03:19 Maybe one. I did get the CDs for my thing. I actually still have in my car,

Shawn Lovejoy: I still have CD binders on my shelves and in my closet, I don’t have anything to play them on, but I have the

Shawn Lovejoy: 03:35 So I refer to myself as a spiritual entrepreneur. But I’m a leadership geek and you know, it was a real estate developer, you know, God did revival in our church called me to the minute vocational ministry. Out of that planted a church, you know, became a Mega Church, started coaching pastors, sort of backed into like Maxwell coaching marketplace leaders, you know. So today I lead a coaching ministry from both ministry marketplace leaders called Couragetolead.com. We coach leaders through what keeps them up at night. That’s what we talk about. That’s our mission and kind of talk guys and gals off the ledge every day and provide permission and perspective for them.

Doug Smith: I love that.

Doug Smith: 04:18 And I’m just curious and that’s what you’re doing today, but what do you wish people knew about your journey and what it took to get to where you are today that they may not know?

Shawn Lovejoy: 04:29 I think most would assume, you know that because you’ve been successful in the business world in know, you know how to grow a church and lead a church. But that’s not always true. There’s a difference between being an entrepreneur and a leader. You know, I think even our president right now is learning all of that. You know, he’s a brilliant entrepreneur, but he’s learning that you just can’t force your way, you know, through everything, regardless of political persuasion. We’ve seen him struggle through all of that and understand the nuances of people in politics and leadership is influence, you know, so there’s, you know, so learning how to do that. I think a lot of people understand that pastors because they went to seminary, you know, know how to build and lead, you know, an organization which is, they don’t teach that at all. It’s seminary.

Shawn Lovejoy: 05:17 They teach you how to exposit scripture, you know, which is, you know, 20% of your week, you know, so 80% of your week as a pastor, you’re ill-prepared and equipped to face. And I found the same is true with entrepreneurs and leaders in the marketplace. You know, they don’t teach us how to do the things that we end up having to do every day, like, like a conflict resolution. I think conflict, one oh one ought to be the first class in college and any, you know, graduate study, but they don’t teach us this stuff and people will always be the greatest tension, you know, as a leader. So I learned this the hard way by reaching out to mentors and coaches and had some amazing coaches in my life. And that’s one of the reasons I believe in it so much.

Doug Smith: 06:02 That’s amazing. Were there any key lessons along your journey that were wow moments for you to change everything through those mentor relationships, or is it just been consistent chiseling away at you?

Shawn Lovejoy: 06:12 Well, I think it was Zig Ziglar who first said it, you know, it is, it is the books you read and the people that you hang out with, you know, determine, you know, what you become. And I, you know, I would have considered myself, I non-reader going back to college and before and developing that discipline and even passion for it, you know, now in my life. And then, you know, the only reason I think I’ve been successful is I was too dumb to quit, number one. Number two, you know, I sought out great, you know, mentors. I walked up to Andy Stanley, pastor at North Point Community Church when the church was running 1200 people one Sunday after it after service. And I was just arrogant enough to ask him if I could take him to a cup of coffee. And he said yes. You know, he ended up being just one of my mentors, coaches, you know, for almost a decade. And I, you know, I’ve had a dozen I can, you know, that would, that would, you know, compete as far as platform is concerned, honestly. You know, and I had all my leadership, you know, two great people. Either I’ve read and studied from afar or I, with this many of those I fought to get in a relationship with so that I can learn from the best, you know? And that’s, that’s why we do what we do.

Doug Smith: 07:27 Yeah. So can you talk about, I was going to ask this later, but you’ve obviously developed a fantastic network. Anyone who’s willing to go to Andy Stanley asked them for a cup of coffee’s amazing. Can you just, what are your top networking tips for people who want to build those kinds of relationships or get in the door? I know you said you kind of had to fight your way through, what advice do you have for those looking to build their network?

Shawn Lovejoy: 07:45 Yeah. It’s funny you asked that. I get asked that you know, fairly regularly, you know, by young leaders, like how do you know all these people that, you know? And the answer is really, really simple. I’ve worked at it, I’ve been intentional about it. In fact, in most of those relationships, you know, they’ve been, you know, largely one-sided and I’m comfortable with that. Okay. I’ve invested more to the relationship, you know, then I’ve received out of it. But I don’t, I, I’ve received so much, you know, of the intangible and the truths and the leadership nuggets, you know, over time. But I’ve fought, you know, to be outside of my own organization, be outside my own tribe, my network, you know, not to have people that just agree with me or come out of my own tribe or network. But I’ve, I have fought to reach across the aisle and get to know leaders all over North America. And so I do, I have, it’s put me in some amazing places, in some amazing offices, and some amazing relationships. So it just requires intentionality. Most of us get so busy, you know, managing our thing. And managing our lives, we don’t take time, you know, as part of our personal growth plan to work at intentional relationships with mentors and coaches and I’ve done that and I’ve paid, you know, reap the rewards of that over time.

Doug Smith: 09:10 Yeah and I’m just curious. Do you think there’s anything that you do that makes you stand out to make them want to give you an hour, 15 minutes at a cup of coffee? You know, I’m sure for every hundred people that ask Andy Stanley and for a cup of coffee, maybe one gets it. I mean, I could be wrong and I’m sure it’s the same thing with, you know, I’m sure tons of leaders want to meet with you and you can always say yes. Any tips on how you can make yourself stand out when trying to get a meeting with someone?

Shawn Lovejoy: 09:32 Yeah, I think so. I think, you know, because I’m experienced this as, you know, as young leaders have come to meet with me, you know, nothing, nothing gets under my skin faster. You know, when I have a young leader come to meet with me and pick my brain and offer them a cup of coffee and they pour their coffee and then they sit back and they cross their legs while I’m talking, I will, hopefully I’m going to say something profitable that you might want to write down because I, that’s the way I live. You know, every time I approach one of these guys, I had, you know, before smartphones, I have my journal, my notebook and I’m writing furiously everything that they’re saying. So they feel valued. I mean the greatest leader in the world feels valued if you’re, if you’re dropping your wisdom and experience and the person is actually going, you know, till links to write it down.

Shawn Lovejoy: 10:18 And then secondly, if they told me two or three things to do or gave me suggestions, the first thing I did when I went back to the table next time was to say, hey, just so you know, they’d have to ask me, just so you know, I had this conversation, I read these two books, you know, I did this, I checked out this website, I called this marketing company, you know, whatever it might be, you know, you told me about this pastor. I reached out to him, we have a coffee. And they’re like, wow, maybe this was a good investment of my time into this, this young leader. So I think the best silver and gold had I none. And you know what I’m talking about, you know, to pay these guys what they were worth, but it was of great value to them and was good stewardship of their time if I executed and made the conversations and made decisions based upon, you know, what we’ve talked about.

Doug Smith: 11:10 Yeah. Oh, that’s so good. I want to go back to your journey for just a second. What we were talking before the interview started, you mentioned that I think three years ago you transitioned from a church that you were leading, that grew into a megachurch. Can you just talk about transitions? I’m just curious what you learned from that. Was that hard? Did you find yourself, did you find a lot of identity was in your church and it was hard to leave? I’m just curious what advice you have for leaders when it comes to transitions in life?

Shawn Lovejoy: 11:36 Yes. It was hard. Yes it is hard and they call it founders disease in the marketplace, but it’s true of ministry leaders as well. And I think there was a time in ministry life when, you know, pastors sort of got a reputation for, you know, changing churches every 18 to 24 months, you know, but I actually think a leader can just as often, if not more often, hang on too long, you know? And I was there almost 20 years, 17 years, and I told our church, I said, it’s hard as it is for me and you for me to hand this baton off to another leader and walk away from this great thing. Like it won’t be easier for you as the church 10-more-years from now. Because the tendency is, you know, every few years that I remained the leader of this organization, it tends to get graft around my personality.

Shawn Lovejoy: 12:24 You know, there’s a reason why a lot of these political offices have term limits. Almost wish that was true minister place. You didn’t sometimes that we got, we had to roll off, you know, and some denominations like the Methodist church may not, you know, even the Catholic Church may not have this too wrong even though people hate it, but it keeps the organization from being built around a man and keeps it being formed around the mission. And that’s what I sought to do. So a lot of people ask me one how I was able to transition, you know, more easily than it seems like most people do. And it’s because like I started coaching, I started preparing to leave at 2003 like I, when I started coaching leaders in 2003 it was my exit strategy and I worked that exit strategy over the next 13 years. So by the time I got ready to transition, it was a small step for me. And honestly, it was a pretty small step for the church. I wasn’t teaching more than about 60% of the time, 55 to 60% of the time. We had a teaching team that was three or four deep been alive teaching at our campuses. So, you know, I worked hard those last seven or eight years in particular, not to build this thing around, you know, a personality or position or person, but to build it around a mission, you know, not a man and, and, it’s worked out.

Doug Smith: 13:48 Yeah. So I’m sure some of these things you mentioned already, I’m just curious what your advice would because I know a ton of leaders right now that are getting ready to hand off to the next generation. I’ve seen some do it well. Some not do it well. What advice do you have? I know you talked about building a team, did you hit it off to an individual? You know, I know Bill Hybels just hand it off and there are two leaders of the organization. I’m just curious what advice you have for, for people who are thinking transition even if it’s 10 years away.

Shawn Lovejoy: 14:13 Yeah, so I think authority, you know, an authority structure is important. I think accountability is important. You know, at the end of the day there’s no perfect way to do it. I think the great tension that everybody feel,s that my staff felt the church, you know, a great young leader to go free, but he’s different from me. He doesn’t process information, make decisions the way I do. So there’s always, there’s always going to base some speed bumps along the way and there haven’t been with us. But to God be the glory of the church is still going strong and you know, thank, thank God for that. I think the main thing a leader needs to recognize, and I say this in my book, be about the vision. Every leader is as an interim leader.

Shawn Lovejoy: 14:58 Every leader is an interim leader. So it’s not if we’re going to leave, it’s how and when we’re going to leave. We’re going to leave either when everybody wants us to leave or nobody wants us to leave. I chose to leave with no one wanted me to leave, you know, and then we’ve got to leave. So what are we, what does that going to look like? Do we have an exit strategy? And I think that’s years and years and years before we leave beginning to put that in place. You know, I have leaders now call me all the time. If we were thinking about transitioning out of the churches, you know, hi, I’m looking at retiring next year. When should I start? Sort of thinking about my transition a decade ago, a decade ago. You should, so, so if you’re, if you’re eight to ten years away, start building what you’re, you’re going to do, start working, start experimenting. You know, you, you fail your way forward as an entrepreneur. So what does it look like for you to, you know, create value proposition out there? In the future and give it a shot.

Doug Smith: 16:01 That’s so good. So back to, to your leadership and coaching. I love your tagline, by the way, you coach leaders through what keeps them up at night and you’ve been doing this since 2003 and I’m just curious, what patterns do you consistently see a merge of what keeps leaders up at night? Are there two or three things where it’s, I know you talked about relationships and people before, but what are those top things?

Shawn Lovejoy: 16:22 It’s all always three tensions or opportunities. It’s always they use or the irreducible minimums if you will. You know, the things that keep us awake at night, it’s either team, you know, which is almost always number one. It’s the people element. You know that one of the biggest lies from hell ever believe, you know this Doug, is that one more staff person would solve our problem. And then you realize every staff person is a problem, you know, because they’re sinners and there have personalities and you know, just it’s more complex, the more people you add and the more sleep you’ll tend to lose and the more fires you have to put out, you know, all of that, the more organizational structure tweaks you’ll have to make. So it’s team, you know, that’s number one tension and opportunity as a reason why a lot of organizations stagnate, cause they don’t go to take him around them, you know, and then call its culture.

Shawn Lovejoy: 17:17 You know, how do I, you know, craft out my vision, my values? Then how do I close the gap between my beliefs and behaviors? You know, how do I get everyone pulling in the same direction? How do I protect the vision from what I call vision hijackers? You know, all of that along the way. It’s all that, all those culture nuances. How, how do we make this the best day, you know, people’s week or how do we make eight to five work day, the best part of people’s day? You know, how do we create raving fans? How do we create a life-giving culture, you know, all those things? And then it’s systems. You know, my definition of a system is just, it’s just a bridge that moves things and people from where they are to where they need to be or from where they are to where God wants them to be.

Shawn Lovejoy: 18:06 So it’s budgets, it’s meetings, it’s communication, it’s assimilation, it’s all of those things. We, we’ve got to constantly build the simple steps, that allows people to cross across the bridge. So it is those three irreducible minimum tensions that as a leader of records, you know, and of course, I’ve got to be the culture I want to build. So, if I’m not healthy, you know, I only had to fire three people. You know, I had some that fire themselves and I was thankful for God. They took care of it. But I had to fire three people in 20 years of leadership up to now all three of those had to do with emotional intelligence. They had leadership health and relational, you know, IQ and all, all of that and integrity, character stuff, you know, had nothing to do with their competence, had everything to do with their character. You know, and so, you know, we ended up backing into a lot of personal life coaching with both ministry and marketplace leaders and you know, you know that well.

Doug Smith: 19:12 That’s good and so can you talk to leaders out there on why it’s important for them to get coaching? I’m sure there’s a lot of people have been saying, I don’t mean I don’t have, I don’t need a coach. I don’t have time for a coach. I’m swamped and everything else I’m doing. Why is it important to get coaching? And then maybe follow that up with, you know, the services that you provide and maybe if someone was seeing this could use your services, how can they get connected?

Shawn Lovejoy: 19:33 Yeah. So I just, you know, if this is not in the Bible, probably should be. I do think coaching is biblical. Proverbs 19:20 says, get all the advice and instruction you can so you’ll be wise the rest of your life. Proverbs 20:18, plans succeed through good counsel. Do not go to war without wise advice. So what we’re really talking about is not just talking to a buddy or a friend or even a mentor, we’re talking about having a coach, having somebody who, you know, we can call, it’s a friend. But frankly we have skin in the game and that relationship that can help us become and do, I think coaching protects us. We all have blind spots. You know, in my live events and coaching networks and cohorts, I’ll often ask for a show of hands, how many of you guys know what your blind spots are?

Shawn Lovejoy: 20:24 And they’ll raise, a few will inevitably raise their hands. Then I’ll finish by saying, no, you don’t the very idea that their blind spots that your major blind to them, you don’t know what they are. Once you’ve discovered them, they’re just sins in your life. So, I think, I think coaching protects us, you know, because it helps us sort of reveal our blind rear view mirrors, help protect us from backing into things and running over things and people, you know, and, and a coach can provide that for us. I think coaching gets permission. You know, a lot of intuitive leaders that we work with, they have, they have a good sense of what needs to be done. The conversations need to be had, whatever. They just need to hear someone say, you’re not crazy. You can do that. You’re right. They’re not going to make it.

Shawn Lovejoy: 21:15 You, you, you need to hear that today. I think, you know, coaching provides encouragement and inspiration. You know, there were many, many days and my life in ministry, where I’ve just about, been ready to quit, jump off of something, you know, maybe kill somebody and it’s my coach’s, you know, quote taught me off the ledge and I came away from every single coaching conversation I ever had encouraged. I can’t say that about a conference. I mean, there’ve been times when I came away inspired, there are times when I come away condemned, you know because I can’t possibly do what they do or whatever. But every coaching conversation where I had, I came away encouraged, you know, and I think coach coaching challenges us. I think we all need to be challenged. I think we need accountability. I think all of us, whether admitted or not, we are naturally lazy. We will always want to do the easy thing. You know, we want a microwave, the oatmeal if at all possible. So you want, if you want to crisis at our house. My microwave went out a few months ago and it was quite as for all five members of my faith crisis. Okay. And we had to go back to putting things on the stove, God forbid.

Shawn Lovejoy: 22:34 And then we’re reminded that people live this way. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years. So they were fine. So we want to microwave everything and the truth is like we need someone to help us not be so lazy and holding us accountable, you know, along the way. And then I think just isolation and loneliness. I think coaching confronts, you know, both of those. I think most leaders are lonely. Most of us don’t have close friends and just to be able to have a safe person to talk things through with helps us fill out, we’re not alone and have somebody else say, yeah, I’ve been there, done that. Got the T-shirt, got the scars to prove it. And let me tell you how I, how I got through that. And that’s what has done for me. And it’s what we try to provide for leaders.

Doug Smith: 23:23 I love that, so can you talk about the services you provide or how to get connected with your network? Your courage to lead?

Shawn Lovejoy: Yeah, so the lion’s share of what we do is one on one coaching. I mean that’s what we love to do. We have some other offerings, but our goal always is to be a one on one relationship with, you know, the people we work with. You know, at the time of this recording, we have almost 20 coaches all over North America. And a lot of these guys and gals are people that I’ve coached or spent time with, invested into an equipped as coaches. We have a model, the personal years of growth and the organizational gears of growth. But as much as anything, we’re talking about wisdom and we’re talking about health, you know, so when you get a coach with us, you get somebody’s cell phone number and you can call and text email and you’re going to get to talk to them that day.

Shawn Lovejoy: 24:11 You know, we’re going to sit down with you every month, you know, whether it’s virtual or onsite or some combination therebetween, and then we want to be with you, you know, six, 12 months. We want to spend some time with you. We’re not consultants. You know what some are calling coaching is really training what some are calling coaching is really content delivery and I’m not against that. I just don’t think that’s coaching. I think coaching requires a relationship over time. I’ll watch you practice in play and I give you insatnt feedback, you know? And that’s what we try to provide, you know, to the people that you know, that we’re working with.

Doug Smith: 24:48 I love that. They can check all this out and I think, did I see if they can get a free consult to start?

Shawn Lovejoy: Absolutely. First calls on us.

Doug Smith: Great. I’ll include links to all of them on the show notes if you’re listening to this and want to get connected. So that’s phenomenal. I want to talk a little bit about the church leadership. Obviously, you’ve been involved with the church world forever. I’m just curious, what trends are you seeing in the church world today and what advice do you have for church leaders?

Shawn Lovejoy: 25:14 Well, you know, Larry Osborne, it was another one of my mentors. He’s become a friend who wrote a Sticky Church, Sticky Teams. You know, he wrote a book years ago about just working with church boards and leadership. He was the first one I ever heard say probably 15 years now. You know, be aware of the shiny new thing. And, even though, you know, everybody wants to say we’ve got the silver bullet, you know, I, don’t believe there is such a thing, you know, if curriculum was going to solve the world’s problems, you know, Lifeway would have done that by now, you know, it would, would’ve saved the world. So everybody’s looking for like the new structure, the new system, you know, we need to be organic. It would need to be missional, you know, we need to be this or that or the other. The truth is it rises and falls on leadership.

Shawn Lovejoy: 25:58 I mean we’ll only, we’ll only go as far and, and grow as expansive as the leadership base. This was true in the book of Acts, you know, there were rumblings of discontent until they got new leaders in the right seats at the right time in Acst six. And the church, you know, could multiply rapidly again. And I think that’s always going to be our great enterprise and guys sort of forget that. They think it’s about, you know, what songs they do, our preaching style or how many followers they can get on social media, how many books they can write. I mean, I know all I know guys that are doing all the right things and their ministries aren’t growing, you know because they’ve not developed a leadership culture and they don’t have a healthy ministry, cultural team systems. So if we get, I get asked all the time, can you guarantee we’re going to grow?

Shawn Lovejoy: 26:49 You know, if we work with you guys? Well, no, but yes, because if I get you, if I help you get your culture, if you get healthier and I get your culture healthier and your team in the right seats on the right and then we make your systems healthier and more effective. Yes. Sooner or later you’re going to grow. We can’t presume on growth, but we can get prepared for growth. Too many of us, like we want the, I’m all for the great commission, just not at the expense of the great commandment. The great commandment comes first, it’s health, then growth. And sometimes I see ministry leaders give get the cart before the horse. So there’s really nothing new under the sun. You know what, what, what worked, you know, small groups. That’s the new thing, that’s Acts chapter one, you know, to Pentecost came in a small group meeting, you know what I’m saying? There’s nothing new under the sun. So it’s about the, it’s about being, you know, focused on what I call the blocking and tackling of leadership, the blocking and tackling of ministry and working whatever your plan is, working your plan.

Doug Smith: 27:55 That’s good. I had a pastor say this once I loved and he said, whenever you see God using someone in a significant way, you should always just ask God, God, what is it about them that allows them to be used in such a such a way that they’re being used? And I know you’re around some of the world’s greatest leaders. Are there any attributes or things or patterns that you see in them, you know, Chris Hodges, yourself, etc. That would position people to be used by God in a significant way. I know you talked about getting healthy systems, culture, et Cetera, but I’m just curious as you spend time with the superstars, so to speak, what have you seen heart wise that we should be aware of?

Shawn Lovejoy: 28:28 I would say one thing above all others and it drives everything we’ve been talking about, intentionality.  You know, the, all the leaders that I know that are knocking it out of the park, they are extremely intentional. They are focused. They live their lives based upon priorities. They are extremely disciplined. They say no to just about everything and everyone except the few things that they feel is allowing them to accomplish the vision that God’s placed on their hearts. I got, you know, as a time of this recording, I’ve got to have a cool little discussion with Craig Rochelle last year. I ended up seeing him different places, you know, two or three times a year. It’s weird. He’s mentored me from a distance. I haven’t hung out with Craig a lot, but I’ve hung out with him in small, very small circles and on several occasions over the years, and he said to me something last year, he said, Shawn, my number one goal for 2017 this is right for 2017 he said, my number one goal for this year is to initiate way more so than I respond to things in people.

Shawn Lovejoy: 29:42 And I thought, and I already viewed Craig as one of the most disciplined people, you know, his, his arms are bigger than his head these days, you know, and he starts work every day, he told me this the last time I saw him this past November, he starts work every day at 7:00 AM, starts work after his time alone with the Lord, helping out with this 27 children and all of that. He starts work at seven, then he stops at four and goes to the gym, you know, so that he can be home and help out in the afternoon. I just thought, you know, that’s an extremely, extremely disciplined focused person, once again.

Doug Smith: 30:22 I love that. That’s a fantastic answer. I’m glad I asked that. It wasn’t in the questions. Um, I would just leave this open-ended before we jump into the lightning round. But young leaders, I know you talked a little bit about networking, but if you could sit down with a room full of 20 somethings, early 30 somethings, what would you tell them?

Shawn Lovejoy: 30:41 Yeah, I talk, if I was going to give one piece of advice for young leaders. I would say have what I call a wit attitude. It wit attitude. You’re probably familiar with this, but it’s a whatever it takes attitude. Like I tell young leaders all the time, don’t decide like what you want to do for a living. Decide the type of people you want to do it with, decided the type of culture you want to operate in because it fits a fast car with an organization and you plug into it and you’re young, you’re probably going to be asked to do 27 different things over 10 years if you stay there. So be willing to do anything. Everything. I’m not a big fan of spiritual gift inventory tests. I’ll tip my hat there in my hand because that’s me assessing myself and my giftedness. You know, I don’t know if you’ve watched the early episodes of American Idol, it’s coming back this year, but we are not good assessors of ourselves without some outside perspective.

Shawn Lovejoy: 31:38 So I think more often we jump in somehow. They survived in the early church without spiritual gift inventory. You know, how did they do it? They jumped in and they did whatever it takes. They picked up a towel and they washed feet and they mop floors and they served the bread, whatever it took. They lead the Bible study and then when they spoke up in that meeting and they said, Doug Smith, when you share your spiritual story, the room sits on the edge of their seats and you begin to realize, maybe I’m gifted at communication, you know, versus taking some abstract test that says you have the gift of prophecy. You know what I’m saying? So I would say roll up your sleeves, be willing to do everything your spiritual authority asks with great passion and the ones as a leader, the ones I’m always eyeing for executive leadership are the ones who are willing to do whatever it takes to pay the high price of the calling to be part of our organization that are willing to give up, to go up you that are, that are willing to demonstrate

Shawn Lovejoy: 32:40 that they not only love God and love the vision, but they love me enough to do whatever. Asked him to do. And if I believe they loved God, loved the vision of love me with all their hearts, I’m going to ask them to go with me for a long time. And so it ends up benefiting them, benefiting them. But I see a lot of leaders, you know, young sort of disdain being asked to do the lowly things. You know, which is just not, doesn’t even reflect the heart and character of Jesus who made himself a servant and made himself nothing and therefore God exalted him. And I think if we humble ourselves, he’ll lift us up in do you time in due time.

Doug Smith: 33:25 That’s good. Before we jump into the lightning round again, is there anything that maybe I didn’t touch on that you think would be valuable for leaders or anything else you want to leave leaders with?

Shawn Lovejoy: 33:36 Yeah, I would just say for ministry leaders in general, you know, the number one piece of advice I give is never quit on Monday. It always gets better on Tuesday. You know, and the great benefit about having a team around you is you usually don’t want to quit on the same day. And most leaders quit right before the harvest. So just be too dumb to quit. I was, and it’s paid off so far. I hear it. You hear it. I mean, we all hear, I think the temptations of Christ have the temptation to give up and quit on the mission written all over them. I mean, it’s the primary thing and I think it’s one of the major attack strategies of the evil one, is to just try to get us to pack up and go home, be quiet, go away, settle for something less. Stop dreaming. Stop believing in yourself and in what God’s placed on your heart. So just don’t doubt have faith, not just in God, but in God through you that you can see this thing through. Just don’t quit on it.

Doug Smith: 34:42 Hey everyone, thank you so much for listening to our interview with Shawn Lovejoy. You can find ways to connect with Shawn and links to everything that we discussed in the show notes at L3leadership.org/179 you can also listen to our lighting round interview in episode number 180 and I’d highly encourage you to do that. It’s extremely valuable. As always, if you enjoy this podcast, it would mean the world to me. If you would subscribe, leave a rating and review or share this on social media, it really does make a difference so thank you so much for being a listener. I don’t take that for granted and if you want to stay up to date with everything we’re doing here at L3 Leadership, you can simply go to our website at L3leadership.org and sign up for our email list. As always, I like to end with a quote and I’ll call Craig Rochelle and this one he said this, he said, “It’s the things that no one sees that result in the things that everyone wants.” I love that. “It’s the things that no one sees that result in the things that everyone wants.” I love that. Thanks for listening and being a part of l three leadership. My wife Laura, and I appreciate you so much and we’ll talk to you next episode.